The 'Everybody Loves Raymond' actress discusses the religious
value of comedy and remaining grounded as a Hollywood Christian.
Patricia Heaton spent nine years as the devoted stay-at-home mom,
never-can-win daughter-in-law and voice-of-reason wife Debra Barone on
the popular sitcom "Everybody Loves Raymond," winning two Emmys in the
process.
Now, Heaton, a conservative Christian, emcees the straight-to-DVD
film "Thou Shalt Laugh," a stand-up comedy concert featuring seven
Christian comedians. Heaton spoke to Beliefnet about the spiritual value
of comedy, what she learned from "Raymond," and raising kids--while
staying true to her values--in Hollywood.
What is a Christian comedian, or Christian comedy?
The material itself [in "Thou Shalt Laugh] doesn't deal directly with
Christianity at all. You just know that what you're going to be
listening to will be safe for the family. But these guys are all really
accomplished, and I was surprised to find that there were so many of
them, and they have these thriving careers.
I'm not sure that there was such a big difference between what these
comedians did and what you would get from, say, Ray Romano or Ellen
DeGeneres, who do really great comedy that's for the whole family. I
think that this is more about countering this idea that if you're a
Christian, you don't go out and have fun, and you don't go out to be
entertained, and you're some kind of dour, Bible-thumping killjoy who
doesn't want to have any fun.
People tend to be easily offended when it comes to religious humor. Do
you see value in comedy about religion?
I think there's a difference when you make fun of yourself and your own
behavior, and when you dishonor or disrespect Christ. If you're making a
mockery of Christ is one thing. But if you're just joking about human
foibles and weaknesses, I think that's perfectly acceptable. And if
you're Christian and you go to church, there's a lot of stuff you see
that drives you crazy, that you can make fun of, and everybody who's a
Christian knows that.
Garrison Keillor, in his "Prairie Home Companion" shows, is always
making jokes about Methodists, and it's very funny, and it's very warm,
and it's loving, and it's true. Look, bottom line is, we're all human
beings, and so there's always funny things to joke about.
Do you think that comedy and humor can play a role in deepening people's
faith?
Obviously I love comedy, so I definitely think that people can really be
reached through it. When you bring people into a place where they're
comfortable and they're enjoying themselves, they're more open to
hearing a message.
With "Raymond," there were so many wonderful themes about relationships
and love and forgiveness and faith in the show that were just
beautifully woven in. Maybe you didn't even know you were hearing it,
but I think it's the one thing that attracted people. It was consistent
about this [being] our family: These are our issues, and this is how we
forgive each other, and this is how we go through. It was all done with
humor, and I think it's what made us hugely popular.
Was there ever a time where you wanted to bring your faith more
explicitly onto the show?
I didn't really need to, because they had set it up that the family is
Catholic, and it was in the fiber of who they were. They went to church.
There would be lines referring to, "We're going down to the church
charity sale," or that the kids were in a Catholic school. And we often
went to the priest to talk about our marital problems, so it was pretty
much woven into the fabric of the characters.
There was one episode which dealt specifically with Ray not going to
church and the rest of the family going. There was a point where Ray
asked Deborah why she goes. And the writer sat down with me and said,
"What would you say to this? As Deborah, what would your answer be?" And
I said, "Well, I guess I would say I go to church to realize that
there's something bigger than me, and to thank God for my family and my
kids and my husband, and to pray for the strength to get through another
day with my kids and my husband."
So in that way, again, I was able to directly say something about faith.
Not the deepest thing, obviously. We weren't discussing the
transubstantiation or anything but making that a part of the fiber of a
family, which you don't see on any other show.
Why do you think it is something that's virtually absent from TV?
You write from what you know. If you are not a Christian and that's not
part of your everyday life, then you wouldn't know how to bring it into
the show comfortably.
The thing about "Raymond," though, almost everybody on the show--whether
they were Jewish or Christian or some other religion--practices their
faith, goes to temple, goes to church, is a part of some spiritual
community. So the idea that the Barones would practice their faith was
not an unusual concept for the writers of our show.
As a conservative Christian, do you find it hard, personally, to be in
the minority In Hollywood?
I think I actually thrive on it a little bit. It's certainly never dull.
I always have a battle. I'm sort of a contentious Irish type. I'm kind
of a loner in that sense in this town, but then I am always surprised
when I get insulted or attacked, even if it's kind of backhanded. I'm
always surprised that people say the things they say, because of just
basic decency and politeness--I'm trying to be polite and decent and
open-minded toward people, and I don't always get the same thing back.
What kinds of things have people said?
There's a way that sometimes people talk to me where they kind of bash
me. These are people who like me. If they didn't like me, I would be
dead. I think--because they feel so certain in their opinions--they feel
that gives them the right to be rude and to tear me down a little bit,
and I've had that happen to me a number of times. I've found that people
feel very free to say insulting things, not about me personally, but
about the things I believe. It's sad, because I really could care less
where people are coming from, politically, religiously.
As an actor in this town, it's so hard to maintain a career. It is such
a dog-eat-dog world here, and you can work your heart out to do a
project, and it just doesn't go. And to me, that connects me with all
these people, because we all work so hard, with zero guarantees. And I'm
always surprised when people throw up these divisions, as if that really
matters in our day-to-day life of trying to be an actor and have a job
and raise a family.
It's not dull. I'll tell you that. I don't like to be bored. I'm
certainly never bored here. It really makes you have to examine your
beliefs and say, "You know, is this worth it? And is this true? Is it
worth standing up for this?" Anytime anybody is rude, it makes me
double-check my own behavior to make sure I don't do that to other
people. So, it keeps you on your toes, for sure.
Have you found it harder to keep to your values with the fame you've
gotten from "Raymond"?
It changed my life a lot, and I feel I was so overwhelmed with having my
kids and raising my kids and working that I had very little time for
spiritual [pursuits], like Bible study or prayer group or anything like
that. And it did take a toll on me.
I'm finding right now that this is a time when I am able to go back to
my women's group, and I didn't really realize what a desert I was in,
because I was so busy. And because also, I loved working and having my
kids, and there's all this stuff going on.
A lot of that, all the shiny, sparkly things go away, and you're having
to really look at stuff, and you realize, "Oh, well, here's this big,
gaping hole here, and here's where I really need pumping up again." So
now I've gotten an opportunity to get back to reading and studying and
praying more, which I didn't have much time for.
How old are your kids now?
Seven, 9, 11, and 13.
How do you keep them grounded?
They go to faith-based schools and we go to church every week, and we
pray together. And we're pretty tight-knit in that the boys are all very
close in age, so outside of school, they're mostly with each other. Our
oldest one is just starting to get out there a little bit more, and
we'll hopefully see if the values that we hope that we've been planting
have taken hold.
That must provoke a lot of anxiety.
Actually, I am pretty trusting. I'm also very nosy, so I know exactly
everything that's going on in their lives. I know their cell-phone
numbers and their e-mail addresses. I'm not afraid to read them. So, I'm
really still way on top of it.
Can you tell us about your spiritual journey from Catholicism to where
you are now?
I went through a thing of being brought up in pre-Vatican II
[Catholicism], where the Mass is said in Latin and you covered your head
in church and fasted on Friday, no meat, and all this stuff. And then,
Vatican II came along. A lot of those things changed. We were still
doing a lot of the ritual.
And then, when I went to college, I found when I went to the Newman
Center, which is the Catholic center at colleges, that it was very
liberal. They were tossing everything out. I was kind of angry--it's
like, what do you mean? Here I've been killing myself and feeling
horrible about myself, trying to keep all these rules and never being
able to, and now everybody's saying, "Oh, it doesn't really matter. You
don't have to fast, or you don't have to do this." And it almost was
because things were so liberal that I started thinking, "Is this the
whole thing?" You know, "What is real? What is true, and what's not, and
how do you tell people something for so long and then turn around and
say, no, that's not the case?"
So after I moved to New York after college, I started just exploring
other churches. I also found that, in the Catholic Church, there wasn't
teaching and studying of Scripture. It was mostly the Mass and the
ritual and a little homily, and that's it. So once I started going to
Bible study, I started really looking at what was done in the early
church and just reading what Scripture said. And I found that that
teaching was very important, and I wasn't getting it at the Catholic
Church.
So I've been to a lot of different churches and, right now, we're in a
Presbyterian church. But one of my kids was baptized in the Episcopal
church, and so we've been sort of a little bit all over the place. And
mostly I've found that it's about the actual congregation you belong to,
where you're living, as opposed to what the denomination is.
I think that the main difficulty for me, when Catholicism was this idea
that was really deeply planted, was that you exist either in a state of
grace or out of a state of grace, and God forbid you should get hit by a
bus when you're out of a state of grace, because it's all over for you.
And, I think that set up a horrible thing in me, that my salvation was
not secure. I think that would be the main problem I had with the
Catholic Church. I don't even know that that's [still] taught, but that
was so ingrained in me. And that unless you went to confession, that you
would still be out of a state of grace. You had to go to confession, get
back in a state of grace.
So it just seemed very tenuous to me, and I don't know who can live like
that, thinking, "Am I going to hell today, or not?" What I found in the
Protestant faith was that your salvation is secure, and that the rest is
process. So that would be, I think, the big step for me.
Was it hard for you or for your family to go through a transition like
that, or was it more of a natural process?
Certainly I don't think my dad is happy about it. And my oldest sister
is a nun, a Dominican nun, so I'm sure she's not that thrilled. But, I
have another sister who joined the Russian Orthodox Church, so we're
kind of all over the place. We've all been a family of seekers, ever
since my mother died when I was young. So everybody's been pursuing a
spiritual path.
How would you feel if one of your children don't continue in the same
faith?
Certainly, if they rejected Christianity, I would have a huge problem
with that. Within the Christian church, if they joined a particular
denomination or had a vocation or became Catholic, I would not have a
problem with that. Any denomination would be fine. Evangelical,
whatever. But, I would have a difficulty if they went outside of
Christianity.
I'm not worried about it. I don't see them doing that, but you know, the
best thing you can do is pray for your kids and set an example.
How did you get involved in the anti-abortion group Feminists for Life?
Being in Hollywood, it's very difficult to be pro-life, and I'd been
looking for a way to express those beliefs. I feel that it's an
important message, because so many women are exploited through abortion,
and that's an aspect of it that I feel NARAL, Planned Parenthood, and
NOW don't want to talk about. I feel there's a huge hypocrisy within
those groups, because if you are really about protecting women and
empowering women, you need to talk about the exploitive aspects of
abortion, and they're not willing to do that.
I'm very proud to be a part of Feminists for Life, because I think they
deal with the whole aspect of being a woman. To really empower women,
society needs to conform to women's needs, not try to force women to
abort their children in order to conform to the needs of society.
What do you mean by "conform to their needs"?
That you allow maternity leave, and paid maternity leave, that you have
telecommuting for work, that people give families time to work out of
their homes when possible, through computers and faxes and cell phones
and Blackberries, and that you maybe have a daycare center at your job
if you have a lot of moms working for you. That college campuses would
have prenatal care for pregnant students and have housing for pregnant
and parenting students, have changing tables in the student bathrooms
for students who have babies, have telecommuting for classes for
students who have babies, daycare on college campuses for students who
have babies.
If you don't have those things, then how are you going to have your kid?
What's your choice? How are you going to stay in school? How are you
going to stay at your job? We really need to provide choices.
Do you feel that actors and other prominent cultural figures have a
particular responsibility to speak out on these sorts of issues?
I don't feel they have a responsibility to speak out on this stuff. I
just happen to do it because I feel that everything I have was a totally
God-given gift. I am first and foremost an actor, and I don't want to
have that title "actor/activist" under my name when people introduce me.
I'm just an actor. But occasionally I feel it's important enough to put
myself out there as a person who can get an audience to shed some light
on certain things.
My husband and I have a production company, FourBoys Films, and through
our art we want to promote more redemptive themes in our movies and TV
shows, and one we have coming out in February is called "Amazing Grace."
It has a campaign attached to it called Amazing Change, about modern
slavery and the 27 million people in slavery today, mostly children.
Through projects like that, that have artistic integrity but also
illuminate what we can do as human beings in this world, that's one of
the ways in which we reflect our faith and our values. But I actually do
not feel that actors have a responsibility to do that.
Do you have a favorite prayer and, if so, would you recite it for us?
It's the Prayer of St. Patrick, and I don't even have it memorized,
because it's so long. But I have it right here. It was written by St.
Patrick, and it's also sometimes called the Breastplate of St. Patrick.
It's a really fierce warrior kind of prayer, and that is what I like
about it--maybe because I have boys, I'm always in warrior mode.
[Recites:]
"I arise today through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
through the belief in the Threeness, through confession of the Oneness,
of the Creator of creation.
I arise today through the strength of Christ's birth with His baptism,
through the strength of His crucifixion with His burial, through the
strength of His resurrection with His ascension, through the strength of
His descent for the judgment of doom.
I arise today through the strength of the love of cherubim, in obedience
of angels, in the service of archangels, in hope of resurrection to meet
with reward.
In prayers of patriarchs, in predictions of prophets, in preaching of
apostles, in faith of confessors, in innocence of holy virgins, in deeds
of righteous men.
I arise today through the strength of heaven, light of sun, radiance of
moon, splendor of fire, speed of lightning, swiftness of wind, depth of
sea, stability of earth, firmness of rock.
I arise today through God's strength to pilot me, God's might to uphold
me, God's wisdom to guide me, God's eye to look before me, God's ear to
hear me, God's word to speak for me, God's hand to guard me, God's way
to lie before me, God's shield to protect me, God's hosts to save me
from snares of devils, from temptations of vices, from everyone who
shall wish me ill, afar and anear, alone and in multitude.
I summon today all these powers between me and those evils, against
every cruel, merciless power that may oppose my body and soul, against
incantations of false prophets, against black laws of pagandom, against
false laws of heretics, against the craft of idolatry, against spells of
witches and smiths and wizards, against every knowledge that corrupts
man's body and soul. Christ to shield me today against poison, against
burning, against drowning, against wounding, so that there may come to
me an abundance of reward.
Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me, Christ in me, Christ
beneath me, Christ above me, Christ on my right, Christ on my left,
Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down, Christ when I arise,
Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me, Christ in the mouth
of everyone who speaks of me, Christ in every eye that sees me, Christ
in every ear that hears me.
I arise today through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
through the belief in the Threeness, through confession of the Oneness
of the Creator of creation."
